Well... how do you create kinetic damage with something that is basicaly an oversized flashlight? Throw it at someone?

this i have to disagree on. while missiles drones and turrets have the option to switch damage they have other drawbacks that make applying damage difficult as well. projectiles suffer from falloff (as well as T2 only providing certain damage type), missiles are difficult to apply damage to different targets, and drones have a their own set of problems as well.

Each system has its drawbacks. Lasers arent the only ones being pushed into a specific corner.

I agree that lasers are pigeon holed. however changing the damage type wont change anything. the thing with lasers is that they have the highest optimal/falloff ratio out of all the guns. adding launchers is a terrible idea, because it creates the idea that people shouldnt use lasers, and that lasers are useless. lasers are fine as is because of their amazing kiting ability. they have huge optimal range, and can switch damage types instantly. i think that tracking needs to be buffed. other then that, lasers are fine.

Also, look at hybrids. they are pigeon holed to thermal/kinetic. they are in the same boat as laser boats. the only difference is is that most ships have less kinetic resists then EM resists (for armor atleast) if you look at PVP, most ships have a huge EM/Therm resist spread, because lasers are sooo deadly at range. PVE lasers arent great, but they are feared in PVP. an Apoc can hit stuff at about 250-350km out with decent damage. whats the point of having a blaster boat or even a rail boat if you get picked off before you can even get within range. pulse lasers are also the same. lasers are meant for kiting.

Howabout 4 groups of 2, letting you choose both between which damage type is higher as well as an alternate capacitor/damage/tracking setup:

-50% range:
1.) 9 EM 3 Therm
2.) 6 EM 5 Therm but less capacitor and a bit better tracking

-25% range:
1.) 7 EM 3 Therm
2.) 4 EM 5 Therm less capacitor and more tracking

+0% range:
1.) 5 EM 3 Therm
2.) 2 EM 5 Therm less capacitor/more tracking

+40% range:
1.) 3 Em 3 Therm
+60% range:
2.) 1 EM 4 Therm

lolno.

Which is worthless because if you're further than 150km out in any ship an on-grid probe gets them a warpin at any range they want within 100km in about 5 seconds.

years ago, CCP did a massive ammo change, but then a quick rollback.

This was considered and rightly rejected.

Amarr would benefit more from an across the board cap regen bonus.

Lasers can't be made good without significantly redesigning the game. It's not a problem with cap use, damage type, or fitting. The problem is nobody wants the things that lasers are good at.

Beam lasers offer the best DPS and tracking when people are looking for the best alpha or the best range when they fit a long-range weapon system.

Scorch's range advantage isn't good enough on BS hulls because there are no BS hulls that get both a damage bonus and optimal range bonus. Compare the DPS and range of pulse lasers with Scorch to railguns with CN antimatter loaded, there's very little difference. The ability of the railgun user to snipe from afar is far more valuable than the ability of the pulse laser user to deal more DPS when up close.

Lasers are very very good on cruiser hulls because cruiser hulls can actually get both an optimal range bonus and a damage bonus. Laser hulls that have both of these are pretty much all exceptional, but unfortunately they're the only laser platforms that are any good.

This guys gets it. Laser have many advantages it's just that those advantages are undesirable by players. Let's look more closely at pros and cons:

Advantages:

Long range: it's not long range it's scorch. But a long range in brawling fights does not give you that much. Primary target will be locked in place, so you only do more damage for that brief time when you fly to the target (because the point is to go conflag to do as much dmg as possible to punch through rr). It's only OP in PvE coz you do short range dmg on long range. In PvP it only gives small bonus. For beams others have pointed out that rails get more range...

Instant changing of ammo types: in most pvp scenarios missiles (HAM and HML) don't need to switch ammo according to range. the same with hybrids (u spend more time swapping ammo then flying to target). Projectiles are swapped mid-fight but they get a huge return on that by shooting in the resist hole. Instant swapping of ammo does not give laser the advantage - it closes the gap between the other weapons who have much more powerful traits (raw dps, selectable dmg types)

No need to carry a lot of ammo in cargo: LOL. I do PvP for 1,5 year now Only once I saw a fleet run out of ammo. It's not an advantage coz for other races need to use ammo is not a disadvantage. They can carry more than enough ammo in their holds (for PvP, for PvE u run out of missiles sometimes), and have little to none risk of running out of it. So this advantage for lasers is nothing but cr*p) further reinforced by fact that T2 laser ammo DOES run out.

Disadvantages:

EM/Thr - no different that hybrids Kin/Thr? Wrong. Every T1 ship has high Em/Thr resist. With T2 ships its more balanced. BUT u donGÇÖt do a lot of DPS. So not only you shoot in high resist you also shoot with mediocre DPS.

Cap use - no need to say more. It not only affect weapon itself it also affects hulls who need -10% cap use bonus which is not really a bonus (Why Revelation is the worst Dread - except phoenix that is ).

Low tracking - again the real value on close range gun is your maximal dmg to go through rr. So you need tracking. Well you have the worst - DESPITE no selectable dmg types and mediocre dps.

So lasers look good on paper, they can also be used effectively if used properly (both PvE and PvP) BUT they will always be less desirable by FCs that hybrids and projectiles. They just don't have any IMPOTANT advantage over them...

Well do don't have trouble using my lasers. I just fly both gallente and ammar and its much easier to apply dmg in PvP when using balsters. It's not a question if laser as good or bad. It's a question of if they are good or bad in comparison to other weapon systems. They are bad. Yes they need good piloting skills to get range/tracking right. That further reduces thier use.

I did ignore the fact the shields have 0 EM resist. Why? 1) amarr as armour ships will be fighting other armour ships. (exept oracle maybe). 2) When you heve 0 resists u will plug tha hole. All shield ships get em hardener or at least a rig. An armour ship will rearly get an explosive specific resist module unless its galletne.

Range in PvP does not matter (that much). All ships fit MWD, AB, MJD. You have scramblers and webs. Fights happen on strgates, wormholes, station udocks, PoSe. You don't fight in open space. So tell we when do you need renge advantege, execept in the process of flying from one primary to another?

I don't even want to comment on that. EFT warriors and theory fighters are better left ignored... I don't say I'm right, but I do talk from my experience. If u chose to ignore the fact that shield fleet will simply disengage form a from with a comparable armour fleet or that shield ships thx to invu filed have sometimes higher worst resists then armour ships best resists then be my guest. I'm talking about competetive PvP where +/- equal forces duke it out. Where you have a competent support and your main goal is to punch trough enemy rr. When someones PvP experience is limited to killing solo raters or indy pilots than ya, lasers are great...